All rights reserved. Does compassion somehow evaporate over time? It is so far removed from the rest of my day, and interests, and routine. So, rather than seeking out empirical evidence on compassion per se, Mazzarelli and Trzeciak organized their research around a set of characteristics that make up what is called patient-centered care. These include kindness, empathy, warmth pretty much anything that shows doctors being nice to their patients. VAN BAVEL: So these were still Manchester United fans, but they were primed or reminded that they are actually soccer fans. And some people would argue there should be no time dimension at all. For stories, shes wandered around an artists junkyard studio, interviewed firefighters at the edge of a wildfire, and chased tornadoes in NOAAs hurricane-hunter aircraft. Before that, he was a newspaper reporter, got an M.F.A. Often our goal is to be a good group member. There is even stronger evidence that most people hate to exercise. Research | Morgan Levy Eleanor, aka Nellie, is a senior audio engineer for theFreakonomics Radio Network. RIESS: The Y is the most interesting one of all. RIESS: Well, they are what shape our expression. And if the empathy doesnt come naturally, or if it gets leached away over time, and if people have to be taught to exhibit empathy well, thats what needs to happen. And the speed at which theyre driving and the risks that the drivers are taking are just mind-blowing. We have some very close friends who like Formula 1, and when my husband and I are with them, often the conversation naturally gravitates towards Formula 1. And the students from Princeton who had watched the game had very different memories of the game than the ones at Dartmouth. Consider a survey done by the Schwartz Center for Compassionate Healthcare, which included 800 recently hospitalized patients and more than 500 doctors. Im so sorry to have abused your you alright? Harvey MANSFIELD: Theres nobody who is a partisan of the two-party system. And there are moments when I feel that way. Heres one passage: Before the House of God, I had loved old people. Heres Trzeciak again: But there also appears to be a perception gap between physicians and patients. You already know Morgan if you listen to the podcast that she produces: People I (Mostly) Admire. So its compassion and clinical excellence that produce the best clinical outcomes. MAZZARELLI: So compassion increased revenue and decreased costs. So we had to do something which was essentially the equivalent of the Dewey Decimal System. There are perhaps too many to count but Jay Van Bavel, the N.Y.U. I do have this, like, almost guilty pleasure, to think about traveling to a race because I dont know if thats actually going to be a priority in my life. In the first, Levine had the fans answer survey questions about why they were Man U fans, how long theyd supported the team, how they felt when the team succeeded versus when they failed, things like that. Because after 20 years of working in an I.C.U. Most people who get into medicine do so because they want to help people. So if a pill could mimic the effects of working out, why wouldn't we want to take it? And theres one more reason why it needs to happen. Rebeccais the senior producer ofNo Stupid Questions. and the civil rights movement. LEVEY: Formula 1 for me lives in this little box. VAN BAVEL: What theyve been able to do, I think, with that type of messaging and advertising is create the sense that exists now among users, all these people with iPhones and their MacBooks and their iPads, they all feel like theyre unique snowflakes. So what does a social psychologist have to say about fandom? The word fan has been around since at least the late 17th century, although it didnt become common for another 200 years, when it was applied to sports enthusiasts. The Formula 1 strategy seems to be working. As an Amazon Associate, Freakonomics may earn commissions from qualifying purchases made through links on this site. DUBNER: So youve mentioned the word obsession a couple of times. Bruce Friedrich Thinks Theres a Better Way to Eat Meat, Dambisa Moyo Says Foreign Aid Cant Solve Problems, but Maybe Corporations Can, Peter Leeson on Why Trial-by-Fire Wasnt Barbaric and Why Pirates Were Democratic, Angela Duckworth Explains How to Manage Your Goal Hierarchy, Travis Tygart Is Coming for Cheaters Just Ask Lance Armstrong, Maya Shankar Is Changing Peoples Behavior and Her Own, David Epstein Knows Something About Almost Everything. Many people consider Hamilton the best driver in history, as he has won the world championship seven times. patients with more compassion might decrease the prevalence of PTSD. Its estimated that 44 percent of medical students suffer from burnout before they even make it to their residency. Its penis Ebola, she says, which is not a thing. Governance, risk, and compliance advisory in financial services Whats missing in this equation? A study from the University of Haifa in Israel, for instance, gave people a painful stimulus while holding the hand of either a stranger or a loved one. Part of that is solved by feeling like youre connected to something thats bigger than you or some group. We promise no spam. Why Is Everyone Moving to Dallas? - Freakonomics MAZZARELLI: It wasnt a title of any lecture. Last year, Van Bavel and his fellow psychologist Dominic Packer published a book called The Power of Us: Harnessing Our Shared Identities to Improve Performance, Increase Cooperation, and Promote Social Harmony. When they lose, we try to distance ourselves psychologically. Thats why it took a couple of years to do. Tim Harford lives in England, where hes made it his mission to help the public understand statistics and hosts the podcast Cautionary Tales. THE ROGUE AND THE JOURNALIST To start things out Rogue Levitt and Journalist Dubner perform a skit which I assume is meant to be emblematic of "the hidden side of everything . Its free (with the purchase of a phone, of course). At 27 and without a college degree she was named chief technology officer of the Department of Veterans Affairs. Consider a survey done by the Schwartz Center for Compassionate Healthcare, which included 800 recently hospitalized patients and more than 500 doctors. VAN BAVEL: And this woman runs up and just smashes it. Its now a platform used by more than 115 million people in 190 countries. Sam Harris also hosts the Making Sense podcast and helps people discover meditation through his Waking Up app. I practice critical care and there are a lot of times when the outcome is not something that can be changed. Prior to joining theFreakonomics Radioteam full-time, she was nominated for an Emmy for mixingLast Week Tonightwith John Oliver. This is the most radical argument that Stephen Trzeciak and Anthony Mazzarelli make in their book Compassionomics. LEVEY: I think theres this quality to an obsession thats very emotional, like does it excite you? Theres nobody who is a partisan of the two-party system. Empathy is a human capacity that allows us to perceive, process and respond to others emotional states. It uses live and virtual sessions to teach anyone but mainly healthcare workers how to be more empathetic. But in reality, my take is that they treat it as much as a game as the demand side does. We are thinking that were providing them with the emotional support that they need but the data showed thats not what were actually delivering. They discuss whether economics is the best of the social sciences, and why its a good idea to get a tattoo of a demand curve on your bicep. Its not an either/or, its an and. A is for affect; the T is for tone of voice; the H is for hearing the patient, the entire patient. Coming up after the break: corporate fandom at its finest: VAN BAVEL: I think Apples done a better job of building identity than almost any other company I can think of. So how persuaded are you that the outcomes are not driven by something else, whether observable or unobservable? They go to rallies and public events and speeches and conventions. Jay VAN BAVEL: Every single society thats ever been studied on Earth, you can find coalitions or groups of people. Your response is your feeling of being with that person, because most feelings are mutual. MAZZARELLI: So, I turned to our No. About To everyone else, it. The treatment group got the compassionate version, with the doctor engaging in warm conversation, trying to make the patient feel at ease, and encouraging follow-up questions. DUBNER: I can see how fewer referrals to specialists and less extra testing would certainly lower costs. I think you could have looked 40 years ago and it would have been the case that people were disagreeing over marginal tax rates. It can be a company that you love or a brand that you are a hardcore supporter of. We had to go back and do a systematic review of a reference-of-references approach whole articles and then read all of those references, and then read the references of those articles, and then the reference of those articles, and keep doing that like a giant tree. who tells us that fandom promotes group identity and can therefore help us feel more connected. Morgan has also produced several episodes of Freakonomics Radio. VAN BAVEL: After a win, people would refer to the team as we. We won. But when the team lost, they would say, Oh, they lost. Because Im not part of the team. Khan Academy grew out of Sal Khans online math tutorials for his extended family. You may not share Morgans devotion to Lewis Hamilton, or Formula 1. But weve got to back up and realize that all these body parts are attached to a person, and only caring about how your wound is healing is not going to make that patient feel very cared about. Hes one of the worlds leading neuroscientists, with a focus on the physiological effects of stress. That sounds like exactly what youre setting out to do if you become a nurse or nurse practitioner; a physician assistant or a physician. Again, its a small study and fMRI evidence is hardly perfect. Maybe its an artist or a musician or a whole style of art or music; maybe its a football or basketball team; maybe you are a fan of some business icon or scientific genius; given that youre listening to this show, maybe youre a fan of economics! Is youre sitting at home alone in your living room cheering and you feel some sense of accomplishment or excitement when the team scores a touchdown or gets an interception, even though you had no part in it. Again, this is just one incident, and an egregious example, for sure. But at least the arrow is moving in the right direction. TRZECIAK: Or they once did, right? So for me it wasnt a group thing. There are many broad categories by which compassion for patients can be beneficial, and the first is physiological. You see so many patients here. Our theme song is Mr. That could be macro-level factors, like what type of economic system youre living in. Todays episode is really interesting. Most people use a podcast app on their smartphone. And in healthcare, when people feel afraid, small and vulnerable, that gaze actually means a lot. . Weve got you covered. There was an analysis I looked at, I looked at just the amount of followers different senators had on Twitter. DUBNER: Ideas, policies, careful-reasoned debate and politics, did you say? Hes a cognitive neuroscientist and philosopher who has written five best-selling books. Everybody wants one of them and not the other. Drive to Survive is now in its fourth season. One of them which you may be familiar with, depending on where you live is called ranked-choice voting: GEHL: Heres how ranked-choice voting works. What is Texas doing about property taxes? And will it save you money? She tells Steve how she hacked the V.A.s bureaucracy, opens up about her struggle with Type 1 diabetes, and explains how she was building websites for soap opera stars when she was just 12 years old. The troublemakers. The book takes the form of six chapters. SHAH: Thats why I didnt become a freaking urologist. Biography | Morgan Levy ANNOUNCER: On January 24th, Apple Computer will introduce Macintosh. The P in Riesss acronym is for posture, or body language. What do you think? But if youre feeling a little like something tilted there we encourage taking some moments to reflect back on what just happened. I mean, forget about the manufacture and upkeep of the cars, but then theyre going really fast and theyre burning some kind of gasoline, yeah? And Jefferson thought that was hostile to republican liberty. I think I would have cried. Our staff also includesNeal Carruth,Gabriel Roth,Greg Rippin,Rebecca Lee Douglas,Morgan Levey,Julie Kanfer,Ryan Kelley, Katherine Moncure,Jasmin Klinger, Eleanor Osborne, Jeremy Johnston, Daria Klenert, Emma Tyrrell,Lyric Bowditch, and Alina Kulman. MAZZARELLI: Theres patients who will pay more for that. Consider Trzeciaks first claim: TRZECIAK: Compassion for patients can actually modulate a patients perception of pain. He is an advocate for greater diversity in the sport and he is also Morgan Leveys favorite driver. This is one of the funny things about fandom, right? It goes like this: Well be back next week. Sep 24, 2021 By Steven D. Levitt Produced by Morgan Levey Comments Share this episode Freakonomics Radio Network Newsletter Stay up-to-date on all our shows. All contents Freakonomics. Theyd immediately be kicked off the team. This is my first choice. This candidate is my second choice. This is my third choice. This is my fourth choice. When the votes are tabulated, if no candidate has received over 50 percent, then whoever came in last is dropped, and votes for that candidate are then reallocated to those voters second choice, and the count is run again until one candidate reaches over 50 percent. Tax owed . Riess argues that this scenario is a big driver of physician burnout. Only 58 percent say, Has a lot of experience.. So, imagine you are a hospital administrator. In the first episode of a If thats the case, where does it go? As an Amazon Associate, Freakonomics may earn commissions from qualifying purchases made through links on this site. Now the researchers ran a second experiment. Doctors and nurses have tragically high levels of burnout. He says theres no established standard for this kind of training, nor is it likely to be evidence-based. And sometimes you just need to sit with people and their suffering. Ryan is an associate producer forFreakonomics Radio. I think the Lewis Hamilton of today is very different than the Lewis Hamilton of ten years ago. It led me to search for what is the most pressing problem of our time. Morgan Levey's Post - LinkedIn and meeting people on the worst day of their life, I came to the realization that I had every symptom of burnout. But weve also seen this in a study that wed recently published here at Cooper. How does it affect the economics of healthcare? In this special crossover episode, People I (Mostly) Admire host Steve Levitt admits to No Stupid Questions co-host Angela Duckworth that he knows almost nothing about psychology. Thats always a paradox of party government. Remember: First, do no harm. I dont know if they know the theory behind it, but one thing theyve done is theyve created optimal distinctiveness with their products. Amanda & Lily Levitt Share What It's Like to be Steve - Freakonomics I think a lot of politicians have realized they can maintain power as long as they maintain loyalty among their political party or they keep fund-raising. But still, this type of study has persuaded Trzeciak that compassion can indeed modulate pain: TRZECIAK: So, I didnt say eliminate pain. LEVEY: On a normal basis, I can just watch Formula 1 T.V. But when physicians decide they have had enough, they know how to end their lives and they have whats called a successful outcome. of the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA), which, under his charge, exposed the most celebrated American cyclist as a cheater. Mazzarelli was willing to consider that a dose of compassion might be worthwhile. We promise no spam. And economic inequality and social inequality are very high right now in the U.S. VAN BAVEL: Another argument Ive seen by a lot of historians is we can go back to L.B.J. Morgan Levey, senior producer of People I (Mostly) Admire, producer of Freakonomics Radio, and fan of Formula 1. Were you wearing a Pittsburgh Steelers jersey while you were watching the game all alone at home? Stay up-to-date on all our shows. And, just a reminder this election season: you dont have to be a fan of either political party to cast a vote. Should We Have to Pay for Our Sins? - Freakonomics TRZECIAK: Well, it didnt take long before I started to see the beginning of the signal in the data. Indeed, the World Health Organization recently added burnout to its international Classification of Diseases not as a medical condition, but an occupational phenomenon. SHAH: One of the nice things about being a specialist is I dont deal with that. It has demonstrable physiological and psychological benefits, they tell you. How did this priming happen? Afterward, the researchers put all nine patients in an fMRI machine, in order to measure their brain activity. RSS. From his nervous questions before things got started: Again, this is just one incident, and an egregious example, for sure. That's health economist Catherine MacLean. Heres one data point that Trzeciak and Mazzarelli cite in Compassionomics: When patients are asked what they consider extremely important traits in a doctor, 85 percent say yes to being treated with dignity and respect., MAZZARELLI: Only 27 percent say they want them trained in one of the best medical schools. MORGAN LEVY. What evolutionary purpose or just modern utility is there in getting to feel like the other side is evil? VAN BAVEL: So heres an example of a corporate fandom. Were testing a hypothesis. He would say, We need to be equally open that compassion isnt something that is measurable and meaningful.. After that he toured around the world working as a live sound engineer, mixing concerts in venues from Auckland to Zurich. Heres the hypothesis Brian Roberts wanted to explore: That treating E.R. So its easy. But in reality, what youre seeing is most fans are so biased that theyre not able to be as objective as the umps or the refs. They wanted to centralize the government too much. Before this, she produced radio shows at SiriusXMsDoctor Radiochannel, and also made a podcast calledVital Signs. It appears to be empathy. Its not only the patients for me. And: Is it just the healthcare system where we need more compassion? Freakonomics Radiois produced by Stitcher and Dubner Productions. Seeks more excitement outside of the work realm.. And you could imagine this could be even greater if there is an alien invasion. RIESS: There have been many studies, both in medical students and in practicing physicians, that demonstrate that there is definitely a deficit in empathy and compassion. The politicians and the campaigns seem to be offering something of high value that will translate into better society, good ideas, and so on. This is a complaint weve heard before on this show, from Atul Gawande. VAN BAVEL: I think theres a reasonable case to be made for that. Morgan Levey - Senior Producer - Freakonomics | ZoomInfo So, lets interrogate this evidence. What are you telling me for? And, also, dont dont mention it to me, because Im not interested. How Do You Cure a Compassion Crisis? - Freakonomics Do with it what you will. "A Roshanda by Any Other Name," in which Morgan Spurlock asks whether the names parents give their children have a positive or negative impact on future success. PMID: 28303013; PMCID: PMC5427843. Shes the author of the bestselling book Grit, and a University of Pennsylvania professor of psychology a field Steve says he knows nothing about. The Freakonomics authors ("Rogue" Levitt and "Journalist" Dubner) supply introductory and linking materials and appear in all but one of the documentaries. She grew up in Atlanta and graduated from the University of Georgia where she received a Bachelors Degree in English & Creative Writing. What you want to do is harness those partisan identities in healthy ways, create healthy norms that, for example, uphold democracy. Weve got you covered. If youre a surgeon and you botched the surgery or if youre a physician who prescribes the wrong medication, there is no amount of compassion thats going to undo that. Frisco, he points out, is hardly the only city nearby to have grown very fast. So that seems to be part of human nature. . LEVEY: I think so. Its just being present. Consumers. Maybe its too much to ask at this moment, but wouldnt it be nice if the science of compassion could perhaps be spread around throughout society, not just confined to medicine? Morgan put together a very effective and self-sustaining program to help students learn and practice positive ways of engaging and resolving conflict in their daily lives. But is there maybe a more concrete definition in this context? But every time I think about it, I think about the kindness of those nurses. And so, going back to what we were talking about earlier, even though there are 281 references in this book of original science research papers that show that compassion matters, even when it cant make a difference in the outcome, it still makes a difference. Im an environmentally responsible person. So, having just synthesized all the evidence that compassion can be beneficial for the giver too, I decided to do an experiment on myself. DUBNER: Let me propose maybe theory 3B, Im just curious to know what you think about it. And they had people come in and tell them which team committed more fouls, Princeton or Dartmouth. In addition to publishing best-selling books about pregnancy and child-rearing, Emily Oster is a respected economist at Brown University. What It Takes to Know Everything. Fortune, by the Hitchhikers; the rest of the music was composed byLuis Guerra. There is even stronger evidence that most people hate to exercise. Thats great! We promise no spam. Morgan Levy Park (Doral) - All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go - Tripadvisor of Gehl Foods. Ford is president of the Frisco Economic Development Corporation. Read More It is so posh. But what was most striking is that it only took 40 seconds for the intervention. The No. Freakonomics (film) - Wikipedia Lets put this within an economic framework, and consider the benefits and costs. But occasionally that standard is violated. LEVEY: A race weekend consists of three practice rounds, where drivers just familiarize themselves with the tracks. I hike, I camp, I ski, I do ceramics. So when I go home and pick up my kids, Im not thinking about work at all or sports. Morgan A. Levey And she explains to Steve why, even as a Harvard and Oxford-educated economist, her goal in life might sound a little bit like a Miss America pageant.. Looking for more guidance? One was a randomized controlled trial done at Harvard Medical School with patients suffering from irritable bowel syndrome. Im Stephen Dubner, this is Freakonomics Radio; well be right back. The next letter is M, for muscles of facial expression. And I had to use that because theres no F in empathy for the face. Trzeciak is the chairman and chief of the department of medicine at Cooper. I mean, it was never something that held me up and it hasnt held me up. TRZECIAK: And the hypothesis is: Compassion matters. Somewhat less surprising are the reported psychological benefits. TRZECIAK: Thats probably intuitive to some extent, that treating someone with compassion can help their mental health. You lop off $100,000 from the average home's value, plus that additional $38,864. Morgan Levy - Chicago, Illinois, United States - LinkedIn The Federalists eventually faded away, and by the presidency of James Monroe, which began in 1817, there was a respite from partisan rancor. But it really doesnt impact my day to day life. This study was led by Brian Roberts, an emergency-medicine doctor. Othering, meaning what? The build-up, it every molecule of my being was like, logically, no, thats not a possibility right now, its not happening. But I had a very physical reaction to just the pure mention or even the pure possibility of being in a Zoom call with Lewis Hamilton. You can subscribe toFreakonomics RadioonApple Podcasts,Stitcher, orwherever you get your podcasts. DUBNER: And then the racing itself. MAZZARELLI: I think a fair response back might be, Okay, fine, you found five studies, and its less than a minute. VAN BAVEL: And the researchers were watching to see how many of them helped the person in distress. Or maybe its something that you say differently? Katherineis an associate producer for the Freakonomics Radio Network. MANSFIELD: Ranked-choice voting encourages people to vote for their favorite views and not so much for the common good. DUBNER: Let me take some notes for your performance review next year. MAZZARELLI: When I started medical school, compassion wasnt a part of the curriculum. And what have been the drivers of this increased partisanship? He has been a lawyer, an instructor at the F.B.I. On the other hand, if you want to make an argument that having compassion can save money, as Mazzarelli and Trzeciak argue, you can use this lawsuit as an example where the lack of compassion can be very expensive. But it can also make us antagonistic towards people who are fans of a rival entity. Compassion, in other words, will heal the healers. Did I not answer their questions? Like when things are off, we should not just move on and say, Oh well. Because oftentimes its that gap where you kind of know something wasnt quite right. According to ESPN, in just the past two years, the average U.S. T.V. Amaryllis Fox now Kennedy explains why intelligence work requires empathy, and she soothes Steves fears about weapons of mass destruction. And that changes how we think about the world, and act. And then Sunday is the race, and races are usually about 2 hours. Healthcare providers who have lower compassion for patients are more predisposed to getting burned out under the same amount of stress. And that again is my colleague and Formula 1 fan Morgan Levey. Even though youve done a brilliant surgery. Hand hygiene, for instance, as basic as that now seems. He studied Classical Piano at the University of North Carolina at Asheville, and earned a Masters Degree in Music Technology from New York University. Producer of "People I (Mostly) Admire" hosted by Steven Levitt at Freakonomics. You want to listen to Freakonomics Radio? A recent Medscape survey found that two-thirds of the doctors who responded said their burnout symptoms had intensified during the pandemic; a quarter of them said they are considering early retirement, in part because their income has fallen. Its not just we contain all these identities now, but we shift back and forth between them. The art market is so opaque and illiquid that it barely functions like a market at all. DUBNER: Okay, aversion. I think I know what that means. Benefits first: VAN BAVEL: So fandom scratches a lot of itches that we have. Can you look at the data around this? And he said, No, youre crazy. Morgan Levey - Senior Producer - Freakonomics | LinkedIn So if a pill could mimic the effects of working out, why wouldnt we want to take it? We wanted to test the hypothesis that compassion matters in measurable ways for patients and for those who care for patients. And so all of us contain multitudes. Morgan A. Levey Audio producer & writer I live and work in Missoula, Montana, where I freelance as an audio producer and scriptwriter. But if you want to make an argument for the lack of compassion in healthcare, its a good example. The Most Ambitious Thing Humans Have Ever Attempted (Ep. So I am a father. Trzeciak points to evidence that compassion also affects whats known as the parasympathetic nervous system. I just started watching Drive to Survive. I will leave you today with the signoff weve been using since early in the pandemic its a signoff, I now realize, that indicates my own appetite for a little more compassion all around. I was not in the market for any sort of a scientific awakening. RIESS: In the general population, there are many attempts. Academy, the owner of a frozen-yogurt chain, and a winner of the TV show Survivor.