The conduit that introduced Joachimist thinking into Mexico was the ecclesiastical province of San Gabriel in. The truly phenomonal thing about the face and hands is the tonal quality which is as much a physical effect from the light refelcting off the coarse tilma as the paint itself. How does science explain its existence after 500 years? Drie, Discover Ruby Slippers: A Flavorful Cocktail Tomato for Your Garden, Introducing Ruby Slippers - A Flavorful Cocktail Tomato The savory pleasures of "Julie & Julia": cooperating in the act of creation, Roy Bourgeois: "I will not be silenced" -- UPDATED. The blue mantle, however, is bright enough to have been laid last week. Luciano Perez Carpio, an employee of the Private . In the middle of marking two feasts of the Blessed Mother the Assumption and the Queenship of Mary Zenit has published a report on one of the great unsolved mysteries of the Virgin: Juan Diegos tilma. When he opened his cloak, the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe was miraculously present on the tilma. It also supports that Valeriano's Nican Mopohua was written later. A new basilica was consecrated in 1976. The explosion destroyed everything around except the tilma, which was unharmed. We also addressed some of the pseudoscience that the image has attracted. She told him to climb to the top of the hill and pick some flowers to present to the Bishop. This fiber disintegrates within 20-60 years! As in the case of the blue mantle, the shadowing of the pink robe is blended into the paint layer and no drawing or sketch is evident under the pink pigment. Indeed, the tale itself appears to have been borrowed from an earlier Spanish legend in which the Virgin appeared to a shepherd and led him to discover a statue of her along a river known as Guadalupe ("hidden channel). The Juan Diego myth takes that away, and whitewashes part of Mexican history clean of any Aztec influence. CHURCH Pope Francis Mexico Pope John Paul II The story of Our Lady of Guadalupe December 12th is the Feast Day of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Callahan found, for example, that most of the entire painting seemed to have been done with a single brush stroke.". They are merely starting points for some people. Registered 501(c)(3). There are no other garments made from that material in existence. Yet some proponents of the image have suggested that the obvious artistic elements were later additions and that the original portions-the face, hands, robe, and mantle-are therefore inexplicable and even miraculous (Callahan 1981). You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. All rights reserved. This process of using an existing belief system to graft on a new one has been called syncretism. Well I have a picture of that supposed reflection and it bears no resemblence to an old man stretching his arms out. Copyright A.D. 33. The Science (or Lack Thereof) Behind Juan Diego's Tilma - Magis Center Thus the Catholic tradition was grafted onto the Indian one, a process folklorists call syncretism. Lets not forget all the marvels that are still difficult to explain. . I think one thing to be careful about is that it's really possible to make anything sound smart and convincing. There was a pragmatic element to Montfar's introduction of this painting and allowing it to be worshipped. I do like hearing both sides of the story. Phatmass.com during a formal investigation of the cloth in 1556, it was stated that the image was "painted yesteryear by an Indian," specifically "the Indian painter Marcos." Here is the analysis of Dr. Philip Callahan, research biologist at the University of Florida, also a painter photographer, and scientific writer, who studied the image under infared light: Please explore Dr Marshall's 8 books at amazon.com: https://amzn.to/2MOZG3G\r 5. On the morning of Nov. 14, 1921, a bomb was detonated in the Basilica of Guadalupe. If they are false, how does that prove that God doesn't exist? The story is where the power resides. In the face of centuries of devotion, ecclesiastical research and plans to make him a saint next year, Mr Schulenburg said that Diego had never existed except as a tool to convert native Americans. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome. Not saying anything is made up but if it was. What Our Lady of Guadalupe Means to a Former Abortionist (cf. The black of the eyes and hair cannot be iron oxide or any pigment that turns brown with age for the paint is neither cracked nor faded with age. Lady of Guadalupe miracle debunked - Debate Table - Phatmass St. Juan Diego's tilma, bearing the miraculous image of Our Lady of Guadalupe, has been on display in Mexico for nearly 500 years, but it has not shown any signs of decay. I believe it's the fullness of truth and superior to all other religions. But of course, as with all miracles, we have to have faith! The best analysis I've found is by Alberto Peralta of the Proyecto Guadalupe project. Content copyright CSI or the respective copyright holders. These missionaries brought with them a worldview forged in the apocalyptic and millenarian ideas that had become characteristic of Spanish Franciscanism. Read More CLAIM Reflected in Mary's eyes are 13 tiny figures, including Bishop Zumarraga and St. Juan Diego. Has NASA Called the Image of the Virgin of Guadalupe 'Living'? - Snopes.com The story of Juan Diego is related in the Nican Mopohua ("an account) written in the native Aztec language and sometimes called the gospel of Guadalupe. According to this account, in early December of 1531 (some ten years after Cortezs defeat of the Aztec Empire) Juan Diego was a recent convert who supposedly left his village to attend Mass in another. Skeptical Inquirer. I see a dozen or so speckles; if you want to make them into Aztecs, Franciscans, bananas, or Bozo the Clown, then you'll probably also be great at spotting dozens of Bigfoots hiding in any given photograph of a forest. Significantly, the 1556 report is the most extensive documentation concerning the Virgin tilma of its century, and it makes no mention whatsoever of Juan Diego, the miraculous appearance of the image, or any other element from the legend. One such missionary was Fray Pedro de Gante (1480-1572), a Franciscan monk from Belgium (born Pieter van der Moere) who learned the Aztec language and created the first European-style school in Mexico, San Jose de los Naturales. So rather than replacing the Aztec goddess, Montfar's plan was simply to introduce Mary by giving Tonantzin a name and a face (recall that Marcos had painted the Virgin with dark skin). How do we explain the Tima of Guadalupe : r/Reformed - Reddit As a scientist, I feel that God has hidden much in our world for us to find, examine, and understand. Our Lady's image on the Tilma | Our Lady of Guadalupe Actually, infrared photographs show that the hands have been modified, and close-up photography shows that pigment has been applied to the highlight areas of the face sufficiently heavily so as to obscure the texture of the cloth. In this blog post, we'll delve into the unique characteristics of Ruby Slippers tomatoes and why they should be on your "must-g, This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. Appearing on the side of the Dominicans, who favored allowing the Aztecs to worship the image, was Bishop Montfar himself. If the Virgin tilma is indeed a painting, and not a miraculously produced image, then it should be a simple matter to determine that scientifically. (modern). Sign up for a new account in our community. Microscopic examination revealed that there were no brush strokes. The cloth that her image was painted on always deteriorated within a very short amount of time because it was not very durable (I think it was something like 20 years that it usually lasted). As he passed the foot of a hill named Tepeyac he encountered a young girl, radiant in golden mist, who identified herself as the ever-virgin Holy Mary, mother of the true God and asked that a temple be built on the site. The Miraculous Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe Our Lady of Guadalupe: Science Unravels its Secrets - Totus Tuus Maria In a letter leaked to the press, the former abbot of the basilica in Mexico City, Guillermo Schulenburg, warned Pope John Paul II not to canonise Juan Diego, a native American whose vision of the Virgin 500 years ago was decisive in converting Latin America to Christianity. The Virgin Mary bundled the flowers into Diego's cloak, woven from common cactus fiber and called a tilma. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. This statue of Our Lady holding the Child Jesus, said to have been carved by St. Luke, was a gift from Pope Gregory the Great (590-604) to the bishop of Seville. Numerous scientists and researchers subjected . Alot of the sites I was visiting were using the analysis that took place in 1936 by Richard Kuhn. Some Catholic scholars, including the former curator of the basilica Monsignor Guillermo Schulemburg, even doubt the historical existence of Juan Diego. Although the copy was preserved behind glass, like the original, it had to be discarded eight years later because it was falling apart and the painting was fading, the physicist reported. Yet, in not a single one of his known letters, is there any mention of Juan Diego, his miraculous apparition, the roses, or the cloak bearing the image, or any other element of the story in which Zumrraga was alleged to have played so prominent a role. It's a beautiful image. The Skeptoid weekly science podcast is a free public service from Skeptoid Media, a 501(c)(3) educational nonprofit. 1983. The RC claim is the Tilma miraculously has the imprint of Mary, this has survived centuries longer than we would expect, there are some seemingly unexplainable things going on in the eyes and there are no brush strokes on the Tilma. When we see the Virgin of Guadalupe image today, most people react in one of two ways: They worship it as a miraculous apparition, or they dismiss it as someone else's religious icon. Montfar found the young artist Marcos at de Gante's school. The legend obviously contains a number of motifs from the Old and New Testament as well as statements of specific Catholic dogma. Both reactions miss the much richer true history. All rights reserved. But the Virgin of Guadalupe is a much more powerful icon to many Mexicans. Paragraph 1: However, it can be disheartening when your seemingly healthy tomato plants suddenly have dried-up blooms. Our Lady of Guadalupe ( Spanish: Nuestra Seora de Guadalupe ), also known as the Virgin of Guadalupe ( Spanish: Virgen de Guadalupe ), is a Catholic title of Mary, mother of Jesus associated with a series of five Marian apparitions, which are believed to have occurred in December 1531, and a venerated image on a cloak enshrined within the Basil. Before the Conquistadors, Tepeyac was home to an Aztec temple, built to honor the Aztecs' own virgin goddess, Tonantzin. This show is made possible by financial support from listeners like you. I'm not sure. As far as the reflection in the eyes of the Lady, it said that the indian she visited is in the reflection. https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.magiscenter.com/blog/the-science-or-lack-thereof-behind-juan-diegos-tilma%3fhs_amp=true, https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/our_lady_of_guadalupe_completely_beyond_scientific_explanation_says_researcher. A Scientific Note About St. Juan Diego's Tilma - Brother John M. Samaha, S.M. Joe Nickell, Ph.D., is Senior Research Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI) and "Investigative Files" Columnist forSkeptical Inquirer. A physicist who has spent years researching the tilma bearing the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe is affirming that there is no scientific explanation for the phenomenon. the image was studied by an optometrist who concluded that that's exactly the way a human eye would reflect the person And I don't have to be so sure. Mexican Phoenix: Our Lady of Guadalupe Cambridge, England: Cambridge University Press.Callahan, Philip Serna. The cedar sculpture in the The Lady of Guadalupe is a piece of art created by man. Since then, scientists have struggled to explain just how the image got there. They have no bearing one way or another on my personal relationship with God. Orozco gave a presentation on the image of the Virgin imprinted on St. Juan Diegos tilma, stating that it is completely outside any scientific explanation. 1 Peterson, Jeanette Favrot, Visualizing Guadalupe: From Black Madonna to Queen of the Americas (Austin: University of Texas Press, 2014), 162 - 170 Google Scholar.The status of both the Virgin of Guadalupe and digital replicas created from that image as relics was reconfirmed by Pope John Paul II in 1979; these replicas were "Authorized Relics that will extend the graces of evangelization . Also, sadly, many people want to relate Mary to that goddess, but she destroyed the native religion when she appeared to Juan Diego. If you are a theist, please be aware that proselytizing in any form is strictly prohibited. According to the myth, in December 1531 on a Saturday morning, a humble Nahua named Juan Diego was on his way to church to be evangelized when he heard birds singing on the hill of Tepeyac. She left a Miraculous Image of her appearance on his cactus fiber cloak, or tilma, which still exists today for all to see in the Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico City. Yet, the tilma and even its glass covering were untouched. It is currently located in a church and people can go and visit it. Sacraments, catechism, works of mercy, prayers - yes to all of those. Two of the Franciscans submitted sworn statements in which they expressed their concern that worshipping the tilma was leading the Aztecs to return to their traditional pagan ways. If there's deception (not saying there is) then that's really bad in my opinion and has the potential to really harm a persons faith and make them question other things that they are led to believe are truth. Portrait artist Glenn Taylor has pointed out that the part in the Virgins hair is off-center; that her eyes, including the irises, have outlines, as they often do in paintings, but not in nature, and that these outlines appear to have been done with a brush; and that much other evidence suggests the picture was probably copied by an inexpert artist from an expertly done original. [i] I think it's more simple to just accept everything the Church has accepted, even if not required. WOW TAN that is an interesting connection. Later, as a sign to a skeptical bishop, she caused her self- portrait to appear miraculously on Juans cactus-fiber cloak. This image has been the tool to convert thousands ifnot maybe millions of people. It is in the same condition now as it was then. But more recent studies of the image has yielded more earthly proof of its origins. Powered by Invision Community, Miraculous Image of Guadalupe (Skeptic Article). On December 12, 1531, an image of Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared on the tilma of native Aztec, Juan Diego during his Marian apparition. Rosales examined the cloth with a stereomicroscope and observed that the canvas appeared to be a mixture of linen and hemp or cactus fiber. Reddit, Inc. 2023. I have to read a page out of a religion book every day and one of the strories was about Our Lady Of Guadalupe. 1997. Instead of just believing what I'm told and not hearing the skeptics perspective. Do you find benefit from these videos and podcasts? In the 2000 book in Spanish,Juan Diego, una Vida de Santidad que Marc la Historia (A Life of Holiness that Made History),author Eduardo Chavez Snchez gives, at some length, various quotations from letters by Zumrraga that he believes confirms the Juan Diego narrative. We take a look at the story behind the indigenous peasant who came across the Patron of the Americas, and how he fought for her message to be heard. The most notable examination was a three hour infrared photographic session by Philip Callahan in 1981, who did note multiple layers of paint covering changes to the hands and crown, but came away with more questions than answers. I know that there are 2 miracles associated with the tilma itself--- a bomb went off near it and nitric acid was spilled on it, and the tilma remained intact. This is the first photo ever taken of image of Our Lady of Guadalupe I could not confirm that ever happened or not. With that said my religion is Catholic. Just as Mary's apparition testified to the triumph of true religion over the bloodthirsty paganism of the Aztecs, even in this case, she overcame the forces of evil. Paragraph 2: Why ophthalmologists should be better qualified to identify Aztecs and Franciscans in random blobs of pigment has not been convincingly argued. The Codex also mentioned several historical people, and even bore the signature of a Franciscan historian, Bernardino de Sahagn (1499-1590), dated 1548. The power of the Lady of Guadalupe resides inside the hearts of those who feel its a miracle or a sign from god. About us | Our programming | Become a supporter. When Juan Diego presented the tilma to Zumrraga, the flowers fell out and he recognized them as Castilian roses, not found in Mexico; but more significantly, the tilma had been miraculously imprinted with a colorful image of the Virgin herself. This was widely published in a larger collection in 1649 by the lawyer Luis Laso de la Vega. Copyright 2015 Skeptoid Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Even if it's made up? Mexicans with Aztec heritage should take pride in the fact that their original culture, specifically the goddess Tonantzin, was a key ingredient in the spread of modern Catholicism. Also, saints with stigmata have wounds that correspond with images they venerated, so if the wounds were in Jesus' wrists the stigmata was on the writs, if the hands, then the hands. Orozco told his audience that this phenomenon is heightened by the fact that it should have been destroyed twice, once when nitric acid was accidentally spilled on a section of the cloth, and another time when a bomb exploded close to it. After filtering and processing the digitized image, Dr. Tousman discovered an entire scene captured or photographed in Our Lady of Guadalupe's eyes. 2010. I examined dozens and dozens of documents in the Vatican, in Spain, in Mexico to contest the existence of Juan Diego is absurd," said Fidel Gonzales, of the Congregation for the Cause of Saints. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Foo.jpg[/img] It didn't take 500 years to figure out somebody [i]painted[/i] it. The Image of Guadalupe. I'm not stressing itbut I find it disheartening that it's being passed around as truth if it's actuallynot. The image itself also yields evidence of considerable borrowing. It gave them the blend of Christian and indigenous religious symbolism they needed to convert Latin America. Our Lady of Guadalupe - Wikipedia However, one thing is concerning me, which is the Tilma of Guadalupe. The Tilma's Symbolism - Catholic Education Resource Center Scan this QR code to download the app now. By Sometimes, I feel like you go looking for reasons not to believe, or reasons why people have chosen not to believe. Schulemburg said the canonization of Juan Diego would be the recognition of a cult (Nickell 1997). Much has been made of the claim that figures can be seen reflected in Mary's eyes, with some even identifying these figures as Zumrraga or Juan Diego or other characters from the legend. I read the whole story but the thing that intrigued me was some of the facts about the tilma at the end . . Miracle: If any, what is the scientific mystery behind the Tilma of the Lady of Guadalupe? . Science Sees What Mary Saw From Juan Diegos Tilma 1985. By The legend did get its first boost of testable evidence in 1995, which (in a case of suspiciously fortuitous timing) was after Juan Diego's beatification in 1990, while there was still debate over whether he should be canonized (he ultimately was, in 2002).
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